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DISCUSSKeeping God Up Late
04/16/2008We’re so confused. The Catholic Pope and the born-again President agreed yesterday that terrorism is bad and so is pedophilia, while the wry conservative Jew Ben Stein prepared to invoke the Holocaust with his attack on Darwinism, specifically by linking Dachau to super-atheist Richard Dawkins in a film called Expelled that opens Friday. Meanwhile, sobbing renegade Mormon wives were being expelled from West Texas refugee camps so that their children could be shuffled through the state bureaucracy by an army of lawyers converging on San Angelo. And the pontiff was headed toward second base at Yankee Stadium, where he will call for world peace but where, frankly, we would rather see Derek Jeter turning a double play. Fortunately the eminent theological cartoonist Matt Bors, our man in Portland, Oregon, tied it all together for us in “World History with the Pope.”
Judging from the above cartoon, it is clear that violence is always conceived and birthed by Atheism.
A plain old Theist would never engage in such crude behavior.
Poly-Theist, Unitarian, Trinitarian, Christian, and Muslim will need to present their own denials.
Thanks, Process Deist - I started to laugh while reading your comment and choked on my coffee! Do you know how hard it is to get coffee out of a laptop keyboard?!?!
Hey...I'm the one who is always blowing milk out of his nose.
Damn...coffee would sting.
Well, I think the comic seems a bit... off. I think the pope was referring to old Joe Stalin and company ya know.
"The writer is the engineer of the human soul."
The other Joe Stalin, not you. Unless you are that Joe Stalin. The russian one right?
That is one of my famous quotes.
You owe me a vodka and tonic.
you're ruse is blown, "Joe": no real Russian would ruin Vodka by mixing it with =anything=. the Russian way is to shoot it straight. trust me on this.
(er, "you're" = "your"... sorry.)
There a good moral agreement, "yes, bad things were done it the name of religion, but you atheists are worst"
There would have been no Stalin if Christains had ruled Rusaia justly and fairly.
Not necessarily true. While Christians should have done the right thing, Russian, or any nation is not made up of "christians", and so the Communist revolution probably would still have happened, in perhaps some other form though. Point is, pointing fingers is pointless.* Just because some atheists killed some people doesn't prove them wrong. So lets quite discussing stuff like that, and actually discuss the real issue.
*yeah I did that on purpose.
What then, pray tell, is the _real_ issue?
Marx was a Christian in his early days. Then Chico, Gummo, Harpo and Zeppo screwed his mind up so bad that he became friends with a stuffed duck.
I resemble that remark.
You think the Tsars were Christians?
Think again.
As with most rulers throughout history, they professed a faith for political expedience and to win favour with their people, but their actions prove they were as self-centred and morally bankrupt as the next dictator.
"professed a faith for political expedience and to win favour with their people, but their actions prove they were as self-centred and morally bankrupt as the next dictator..."
Sounds like Bush! Both of them!
Vladimir Putin is making the Russian Orthodox Church the official state religion again. That is bad news for Baptists and Methodists, among others. Now, where does Putin fit in anyway? Is is a Christian? Does he more resemble the Tsar or Stalin? I have to admit, I thought the last movie with a happy ending was "Nicholas and Alexandra." If either one had been a Christian, the movie would have had a happier ending for them.
"There would have been no Stalin if Christains had ruled Rusaia justly and fairly."
This is the best sarcastic irony I've ever seen! *Fabulous!*
...as if christians are at all capable of ruiling justly and fairly! Oh lord what a knee slapper! Let the fair and just taliban being! Yay!
(My stomach hurts from laughing so hard!)
... I meant "let the fair and just taliban BEGIN!"
I must object to the key sentance of this article. There are many, many, many people who don't want to see Jeter turn a double play. I am among these masses and we are called Red Sox Nation.
We pledge our Allegiance to the Pennant, and for the years of suffering for which it stands. One Nation, under John Henry, indisputable, with Hot Dogs and Beer for all.
This cartoon makes a good point but... it makes the current pope look like hes an ignorant idiot. But lets be honest, for whatever problems we protestants have with the idea of the Pope, Pope Benedict is one of the more philosophically and theologically educated Popes. Hes not just a guy with a big hat that smiles and holds up his hands. The dude is extremely well read and has written a lot of heavy theological works.
In fact some of the major messages that he is preaching on his US trip are confronting American catholics on the same issues that I have heard come out of the mouths of protestants for years.
Ben is certainly well educated, but he's still a bigot.
...and why can't he learn to say "this" instead of "zis", or "there" instead of "zere"?
I don't have a problem with any of this as long as the Pope is getting to second base with a consenting adult.
This has nothing to do with the witty if not quite humble cartoon, but with the joe stalin back & forth.
To anonymous 9:15 a.m., can Christians really rule? Weren't we called to serve?
Questioner - Thank you, thank you, thank you - ever so much for pointing out the very essence of being a Christian: SERVICE.
Those out in the trenches with the sick, the poor, the homeless, the abused and downtrodden - those attempting to make life better for the poorest of the poor are the true christians.
Mother Theresa was a true Christian, and so are the Salvation Army dudes, in spite of their selective bigotry. (Isn't it odd that is that one can hate while serving others?)
Being a christian has ***nothing*** to do with imposing one's faith or belief on someone else: it has everything to do with humbly serving our fellow humans to ease their pain and suffering.
Mother Theresa are you f*&%ing kidding me???!!!! Mama Theresa is the same witch that refused to teach anything about safe sex while she did her tour of africa, she's the same person that decided if they were going to have sex even though the country is ripe with std's AIDS mainly that you shouldnt use protection because it's ungodly. you know if you're trying to "help" someone it should be to genuinly help not to help as long as you convert.
Betty Bowers said it best, that the current pope could have stood up to the Nazi’s and became a martyr and a saint, be he chose appeasement with the Nazis so one day he could become pope.
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I don't think it would be inappropriate to say that God is not only the creator, the sender, and the permitter, but sometimes even the instigator of evil. He created light and darkness, sent angels to destroy armies, permitted Job's ass-kicking, even to the point of instigating Satan, i.e. the embodiment of evil. Open theism will have a hard time arguing those and other relevant facts. Nevertheless, it's a difficult thing to acknowledge that everything is under the feet of Jesus, no?
God is the Creator. God never destroys.
God does not instigate evil.
God did not permit Job's ass-kicking. That is a story that goes back thousands of years and is told in many cultures before the Jews got organized.
An if you are into angles and satan....read First Enoch. That will give you a little background before you jump into the Bible.
I think the main argument behind the comments has been over looked.
If atheism is true (i.e. there IS NO GOD) then there is no one to whom we are ultimately accountable to for our actions. If we are not accountable then either a)might makes right as in the communist experiments of the last century or b) Whatever I can get away with is right because there is no wrong anyway, as in the current post-modern mindset.
Marx's social ideas were simply a working out of his already entrenched Atheistic beliefs. Those guys always seem to wrongly assess the depravity of true human nature though, dont they? ;-)
Go back and look at each cartoon panel again.
This is not about the truth or falsehood of atheism.
Each scene holds a mirror up to reflect a hollow doctrine of Christianity.
"Each scene holds a mirror up to reflect a hollow doctrine of Christianity."
That's how I see this comic. What a sad comment on "Christianity". Because that's not what Jesus the Christ is all about.
Jeanene
As Mark Twain said, if Jesus came back, one thing he would not be is a Christian. And as Ambrose Bierce imagined the man saying, "What? I a Christian? No indeed, I'm Christ."
The first attempts at what was later to be called communism were done by Jesuit priests in Paraguay in the 1820. This is one of many sources where Karl Marx got his ideas. Also the early Christians were not free market capitalists. They lived like hippies.
Anonymous, your assertion is false: "If atheism is true (i.e. there IS NO GOD) then there is no one to whom we are ultimately accountable to for our actions."
We are accountable a) to ourselves individually, b) to our communities, c) to our fellow human beings, and d) to history.
It's a matter of MORALITY.
It is NOT a matter of the existence of Sky Cat.
I hate to disappoint everyone, but Christianity and Catholicism are one and the same vehicle. Jesus was never a Christian. That was a name coined by someone who hated JESUS, and attached that title to his followers. Unfortunately the title stuck. Do your homework.
Ya, the whole "Jesus" being a bastardization of the then common jewish name "Yeshua"( I think it's Yeshua, it's been a long time since I read about this) and "Zeus". What's-his-face wanted to make Christ more acceptable to the roman world, so combined the "new" deity with the old familiar Zeus. Combined all the pagan holidays with the new and improved christian symbols and meanings. The spring and winter solstice pagan celebrations with christ's resurrection and birth to make easter and christmas. Interesting to read and it makes me feel smart to know, but it sure did suck the fun out of holidays.
Are we are stuck with the meanings the words have now? While its fun to go back and study etymology, Do I have to use words in the context that most people understand?
If you believe in the deity of and follow the teachings of Jesus, are you stuck with the term "Christian"?
Catholicism=Christianity? No way. Maybe it's a matter of semantics for you. I associate Christianity with being Protestant. Protestantism does not = Catholicism. Roman Catholics are not followers of Christ. They are not followers of anyone except possibly Peter and the other Apostles. They are a people who have certain beliefs and practices, some of which acknowledge Jesus the Christ, but do not follow Him as their Lord and Savior:
- Direct and continuous organizational descent from the original church.
- Belief that Jesus Christ is Divine.
- Belief that the consumed Communion is the actual body and blood of Christ.
- The ministry of Bishops, Priests and Deacons.
- All ministers are ordained by and subject to Bishops who pass down sacramental authority, having themselves been ordained in a direct line of succession from the Apostles.
- Belief that the Church is the vessel and deposit of the fullness of the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles from which the Scriptures were formed. This teaching is preserved in both written scripture and in unwritten tradition, neither being independent of the other.
- A belief in the necessity and efficacy of sacraments.
- The use of sacred images, candles, vestments and music, and often incense and water, in worship.
- The veneration of Mary the mother of Jesus as the Blessed Virgin Mary, and veneration of the saints.
- A distinction between adoration for God, and veneration for saints.
- The use of prayer for the dead.
- Requests to the departed saints for intercessory prayers.
As one of the early English Chartists said, "I have to accept the principle of Apostolic Succession. I have no other way to account for the descent of the Bishop of Exeter from Judas Iscariot." That was the Anglican Bishop of Exeter, there having been no Roman Catholic in the post since Henry VIII's coup d'eglise. The bishop apparently was quite hostile to union organization.
Most of this description sounds a lot like the Anglican Church, but as someone said of Henry Newman leaving the Anglican for the Roman church "Yeah, like that's a big difference." The fundamental question was who is the head of the church, ignoring John Wycliffe's assertion that Jesus is the only head of the church.
True Christianity is, in my seldom humble opinion, an unattainable blend of Wesleyan, Unitarian, Mennonite and Presbyterian theology, with a purified whiff of Pentecostal praise and a tad of Catholic humanitarian reasoning, divorced from its hierarchical trappings.
I love your definition of christianity. Not that I believe it in an absolute sense, but it describes my faith trail pretty well. Seriously, I can't really explain why that appeals to me so much. Maybe because those are all my favorite denominations, in the same way I like the Detroit Tigers, the Red Wings, da Bears and Notre Dame college football. More of an aesthetic preference perhaps?
dammit, I'm late again...
technically 'catholic' (little c) means 'universal' as it was the first form of xtianity. the branch we know know evolved from rules, just as the current form(s) of protestantism evolved from what they was originally.
and not all Catholics practice the same form of Catholicism just as not all Protestants practice the same form of Protestantism (or believe the same thing).
but it's just a mere technicality. we all are going to be surprised on the other side.
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